After breaking out in Ang Lee’s ambitious adaptation, the actor explains to IndieWire why he wanted to pursue the kind of role many would find unsettling.
Part history lesson, part moral reckoning, Chris Weitz’s “Operation Finale” dramatizes the 1960 operation to bring former SS officer Adolf Eichmann to justice following his years-long escape to Argentina. The film follows Israeli intelligence officers Oscar Isaac, Mélanie Laurent, and Nick Kroll as they hunt the unrepentant Nazi, capture him, and take him to Israel to stand trial. Along the way, their efforts are thwarted by many, including Eichmann’s eldest son, Klaus (Joe Alwyn), who has long embraced his father’s twisted ideals.
Alwyn was drawn by a true story, a slice of history that continues to compel the world, the opportunity to work with a living legend like Sir Ben Kingsley (who plays Eichmann), and the challenge of presenting a multidimensional villain.
“The way that I wanted to try and play him wasn’t as a kind of 2D baddie with no kind of other sides to him, but hopefully that, in another world, he could have otherwise been a decent, normal good guy,” he said. “You hope that maybe with [his relationship with] Sylvia (Haley Lu Richardson) at the beginning of the film, there could have been in another world where he realizes that it doesn’t matter about her religion and that they could try and be together. But obviously, that hope is kind of dashed when his dad is taken.”
For the actor, the key to the character was his relationship with his father, a man that Klaus idolizes and doesn’t wholly understand. “I think his choice to follow in his dad’s footsteps, rather than coming from some strong nationalistic feelings himself, more comes out of a loyalty and love of his father,” he said. “I thought that was interesting, that you could have him find empathy in that situation of what Klaus is kind of born into.”
Instead of being hobbled by the tilt of Klaus’ narrative arc — in the film, as in real life, the character is never “redeemed” — Alwyn attempted to empathize with the broader implications.
“I found it interesting and sad, even if he isn’t redeemable,” Alwyn said. “I think he doesn’t fully understand what his dad has done and what he’s responsible for. It’s quite an abstract thing to him. I think the war crimes of his dad … he hasn’t quite computed it and so he’s being dragged further and further into this world without actually recognizing the kind of full implications of what it means.”
The actor said earlier versions of the film included scenes that tapped into that disconnect between history and Klaus’ comprehension. “There was a conversation that Klaus has with his mother after his dad has been taken, asking her about what he’s done before, as if in a way that he doesn’t quite recognize the severity of it all, quite what it means,” Alwyn said. “There were moments kind of peppered throughout where he’s more on the fence about where he belongs and which path he thinks he should take.”
Although the actor was bent on finding glimpses of humanity in his character, he readily admitted it was a tough task. “He is, of course, not a nice character, not a good person,” he said.
Given the current cultural climate, Alwyn hopes the film will serve as a reminder of the pain that hatred, ignorance, and bigotry can inflict on humanity. “Given the kind of rise of right-wing nationalism in the world today, it’s a reminder that even decades later these divisions continue,” he said. “The world has to remain strong and fight against bigotry and pursue justice.”
“Operation Finale” is only Alwyn’s third film credit, but it’s not his first foray into stories set during times of cultural heartbreak. As the eponymous Billy Lynn of Ang Lee’s 2016 film “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk,” Alwyn made his debut in a technologically ambitious work (Lee’s film was the first, and so far only, to be shot using 120fps) about a traumatized soldier thrust into the national spotlight.
The film made its world premiere at the New York Film Festival, where it was touted as a Special Presentation, but flamed out when it was released in theaters just weeks later. Ultimately, it only made $1.7 million at the U.S. box office (globally, it pulled in just under $29 million).
“I wish more people had seen it than they did,” Alwyn said. “But I think the way that it was made with the technology that was used, there was always only going to be a limited amount of people that could see it in that way. That was gonna be a very expensive way of showing the film and definitely proved problematic in being able to screen it in that way, which is definitely a shame. But I still feel so proud of the film.”
Still, “Billy Lynn” served as a major coming out for the actor. “Doing that film definitely opened up a lot of doors,” he said, adding that “having been spoiled by working with Ang as [my] first director, I wanted to try and find more great filmmakers to learn from and build in that way.” That meant finding projects he was passionate about making, “even if it was just a supporting role … rather than just jumping into something big for the sake of it.”
Confira as citações do Joe traduzidas em português:
Joe sobre seu personagem Klaus: “O jeito que eu queria tentar interpretá-lo não era como um tipo de vilão em 2D com apenas um lado, mas espero que, em outro mundo, ele poderia ter sido um bom rapaz decente e normal”.
“Você espera que talvez com [sua relação com] Sylvia (Haley Lu) no início do filme, poderia ter havido outro mundo onde ele percebe que não importa a religião dela e que eles poderiam tentar estar juntos. Mas, obviamente, essa esperança é frustrada quando seu pai é levado.”
Joe sobre a relação de Klaus com o pai: “Acho que a escolha dele em seguir os passos de seu pai, em vez de vir de alguns sentimentos nacionalistas fortes, resulta de uma lealdade e amor ao pai.”
“Achei interessante e triste, mesmo que ele não seja resgatável“, disse Alwyn. “Acho que ele não entende completamente o que o pai dele fez e pelo que ele é responsável. É uma coisa bem abstrata para ele. Eu acho que os crimes de guerra do pai dele …Ele não calculou bem e está sendo arrastado mais e mais para este mundo sem realmente reconhecer o tipo de implicações completas do que isso significa. ”
“Houve uma conversa que Klaus teve com sua mãe depois que seu pai foi levado, perguntando-lhe sobre o que ele fez antes, como se de alguma forma ele não reconhece a gravidade de tudo isso, o que isso significa” Alwyn disse. “Houve momentos meio espalhafatosos por onde ele está mais em cima do muro sobre onde ele pertence e qual caminho ele acha que deveria tomar.”
“Ele é, claro, não é um personagem legal, não é uma pessoa boa”
“Dado o tipo de ascensão do nacionalismo de direita no mundo hoje, é um lembrete de que, mesmo décadas depois, essas divisões continuam”, disse ele. “O mundo tem que permanecer forte e lutar contra o fanatismo e buscar a justiça.”
Joe sobre Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk:”Eu gostaria que mais pessoas tivessem visto isso”, disse Alwyn. “Mas acho que da forma como foi feito com a tecnologia que foi usada, sempre haveria apenas uma quantidade limitada de pessoas que poderiam assistir. Essa seria uma maneira muito cara de mostrar o filme e definitivamente se mostrou problemático em ser capaz de exibi-lo, o que definitivamente é uma vergonha. Mas ainda me sinto orgulhoso do filme. ”
Ainda assim, “Billy Lynn” serviu como uma grande saída para o ator. “Fazer esse filme definitivamente abriu muitas portas“, disse ele, acrescentando que “tendo sido mimado por trabalhar com Ang como meu primeiro diretor, eu queria tentar encontrar mais grandes cineastas para aprender e construir minha Carreira.” Isso significava encontrar projetos que ele era apaixonado por fazer, “mesmo que fosse apenas um papel de apoio … ao invés de apenas pular em algo grande por causa disso“.
